Jan. 23, 2009

The worse the situation, the worse your jokes get

Sometimes it’s hard for me not to editorialize, as is the case today. This thread are the first responses we’ve received regarding the live changes to hunters in the latest patch, specifically to Beast Mastery and Marksmanship (from Ghostcrawler).

In order to lend any weight to statements such as “You nerfed our other 2 trees to oblivion,” you are going to have to provide numbers comparing the 3 specs and they are going to have to be numbers that a reasonable amount of other players believe are reasonable numbers.

Real numbers are much more compelling than what spreadsheets estimate. Multiple bosses are more compelling that combat dummies.

Currently we are seeing a lot of “Someone smart posted some numbers showing Survival was the best dps spec, so I went that spec.” We need to see a lot more players trying out different builds and strategies. Declarations that “I too adopted a cookie cutter spec” aren’t as compelling when you are taking about potential and effective dps.

More posts. Then.

Correct me if I’m wrong, GC, but didn’t you recently say that the devs don’t give much credibility to player-supplied data because you guys “have access to the real data from realms”?

Sometimes players post numbers and then say “There. Go fix it.” It of course doesn’t work that way. But numbers generated from the community are always very useful.

Note that I didn’t say we lacked hard evidence. I said that posts saying “BM and MM are broken,” without much proof aren’t very useful. Yes, I know I can go over and read EJ’s forums. I do that a lot. Posts that say “Go look at EJ’s numbers” aren’t that useful either.

What I am hoping to see is someone say perhaps “BM is 1000 dps lower than SV” so that maybe someone else can come in and say “Um, those numbers look suspicious to me” or “I get that on some fights but not on others.” Slowly some kind of consensus can be arrived at. Just quoting another player’s numbers over and over doesn’t provide the same kind of data set.

every hunter and their mother called that MM and BM would be uncompetitive

From my POV it was more like some smart theorycrafters (possibly even on EJ) came up with some numbers and then a lot of people adopted those as fact and started echoing that MM and BM would be uncompetitive. I don’t feel that the community has really had enough time with the changes to figure out the nuances of specs that many people had abandoned for a long time. I still see discussions about whether raptors or wasps (or moths!?) provide the most dps.

From what we can tell, SV and MM are pretty close. SV may be slightly higher, but not by hundreds of dps. Affliction and Destro aren’t at the same exact number but you still see both in raids (for the time being). MM also brings a really nice group buff (Trueshot Aura) while SV provides Replenishment, and we take those into consideration.

BM is an easier spec to play. We tend to reward specs that are a little tougher to play if played very well with higher dps. Affliction and Mutilate are good examples, though we went overboard with Mutilate’s dominance over other specs. If BM was simpler and provided the same or higher dps, then you would see 95% BM hunters (which, no suprise, is exactly what we had). Some players will try SV or MM, decide it’s not for them and go back to BM. If they couldn’t make SV work, then their dps may be just fine as BM (or else the drop will be so low that they don’t care). At issue is how much lower BM can be than MM and SV before it isn’t worth spec’ing into. Combat for rogues is too far below Assassination so that you take too big a hit if you choose to opt out of the more demanding Mutilate play style. Make sense?

Again I will offer that for 95% of players out there, your individual skill and gear are going to have more effect than your spec. Just because very good hunters (or spreadsheets) come up with the highest possible dps for Survivial, does not mean that your dps will improve as Survival or that you cannot improve your dps as Marks or BM. I know it’s a tradition in WoW to adopt cookie-cutter specs, and to some extent we’ll never get away from that. But don’t absolve yourself of the responsibility for trying to maximize your dps. When the community suddenly shifts, it’s because some smart player experimented with a new build and made that work.

Oh man. Lots more posts.

First, some of you need to chill. I answered some questions players had been asking. If you don’t like my answers, you are welcome to say that. However, if you yell and scream and insult us, you are going to be banned. Several of the low level alts with a history of trolling have been banned permanently.

You all have asked a lot of questions and I can’t answer them all, but here are some.

GC I find it amazing that with all the tools you have at your disposal that you cannot pull the data from the system yourself.

You’re not reading what I am saying. Yes, of course we can do that. And we do.

My post was essentially that saying “Everyone knows SV is the hunter spec and BM and MM are garbage” is not a useful post. It probably isn’t even true. There have been several posts asking why I didn’t respond to threads with this as their thesis. I am attempting to explain why.

Is it honestly your contention that we all just copy and paste a fotm spec from EJ without thinking or testing various ideas out?

Do you really think that those of us who have played this class for years have so little understanding of the mechnics that we are just little robot followers who pick specs based not on facts, but on fashion?

No, of course not. My message was to those players that are doing that however. A quick glance at the forums will reveal a lot of them.

Wow, I see a lot of unhappy PAYING customers in this thread. As a former software customer service rep myself I would just like to make note here that it’s a very, very bad idea to even remotely insinuate that it may these PAYING customers’ own fault that they’re unhappy.

This is a tired argument and the kind of thing that will get you banned. Yes, of course we care about players being happy. That is why I spend so much time on these forums. Buffing players just because they ask for it will no doubt make them very happy. It will also make all of the other classes rather unhappy.

Thing’s like this have been posted to death both here, on the PTR forum, and EJ

Okay, but if you have posted the numbers to death already and don’t want to post any more, what exactly is the purpose of constantly launching new threads on the topic? I hope it isn’t just to get a blue response. Flooding the forums with the same topic is just going to make it harder for anyone to find information.

How did we arrive there? Especially from here a point where every hunter tree had a valuable use:
* low-to-mid rated arena, or competitive PVE damage? Beast
* high rated arena? Marks
* mana efficiency and a great raid buff? Survival

I’m telling you that nearly every hunter was BM. You can say that all the specs were viable before the recent patch, but the fact is that very few players were trying the others, especially Survival.

Hunters have 3 dps trees, just like DKs. Out of the 3 trees, DKs have a LOT of viable specs (2H Frost, Frost DRM/BotN IT spam, Blood, 32/39, 44/27, unholy). Not all of these specs are optimal, but you wont see a spec beating the crap out of the others.

Hunters got one spec. And they’re doing well by exploiting a clunky trap dance “feature”. Where are the hunter hybrid specs? Do devs seriously think none have spawned because hunters are too friggin dense? Hunters are doing what they can with the talents they got.

Okay, I think this is the disconnect. This is exactly what we want – 3 viable specs. We don’t want BM to be the noob spec that serious players don’t use. We also don’t want it to be the spec that every hunter uses, which I agree is where it has been for some time.

My comment was that BM can’t be both easier to play and do more dps. We can debate whether or not BM is actually easier to play, but that is a slightly different discussion. Perhaps it is more fair to say that even though skilled BMs can squeeze even more dps out of their attacks, a BM player who did nothing but Steady Shot and use the pet could still do very high dps, which is not what we want.

If BM becomes too unpopular with these changes, if it becomes no longer viable in PvE or PvP, then we will fix it. The problem was that for a long time BM was the only PvE spec and it had increasingly become the leveling and PvP spec too.

I think some of my Ulduar comments have been taken out of context or misunderstood. We are making some changes to hunters. Some of them are pretty cool. We will have to rebalance many of the attacks at that time. For example, we are likely to add additional pet talents that increase dps so that the 4 bonus points from BM 51 will inflate player dps overall.

Jan. 20, 2009

3.0.8

So it’s live, finally. Here’s a recap of the patch notes, as they relate to hunters.

Racial restrictions on mounts have now been lifted. Night Elves on mechanostriders? Tauren on raptors? You’re not seeing things.
Racial Resistances: These can now be mitigated against by gaining additional chance to hit.
Tapping: All player spells which cause a creature to become aggressive to you will now also immediately cause the creature to be tapped.
All Silence spells now have diminishing returns. This includes: Arcane Torrent, Garrote silence effect, Improved Counterspell effect, Improved Kick effect, Silence, Gag Order, Silencing Shot, Spell Lock, and Strangulate.
We have added over 60 new graveyards to Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms.
The run speed in spirit form has been increased by 50%. Night Elves in Wisp form will now move at a bonus 75% speed.
Reputation rewarded for killing mobs will no longer automatically deprecate. This means trivial mobs will continue to give out their full amounts of reputation on kill for the majority of cases in the game (level 70 creatures in Stratholme, for example, will continue to award the full amount of rep to level 80 players seeking to boost their Argent Dawn faction).
Vehicles can now be affected by most player spells, except CC, snares and roots.
Arena rating requirements for all Deadly Gladiator’s Arena items have been reduced by 100.
Arena, Ring of Valor: The small pillars will now rise immediately once the arena begins.
Wintergrasp Commendations can now also be purchased for the low low price of 9 Wintergrasp Marks of Honor. Players can visit their respective Wintergrasp vendors and put those Marks of Honor to use!
Hunter Aspects are now off the Global Cooldown again. They still have a shared 1 second cooldown.
All Hunter pet abilities with a cooldown of 30 seconds or more are no longer on the global cooldown.
Arcane Shot: Mana cost lowered to match the cost of Steady Shot.
Aspect of the Wild – This aspect is now raid-wide.
Call of the Wild: The benefit from this pet talent now applies to only the Hunter and their own pet.
Deterrence: Design changed to grant 100% parry and 100% chance to “deflect” spells coming from the front, but prevents the Hunter from attacking. Lasts 5 seconds and has a 90 second cooldown.
Explosive Shot: Damage increased substantially, and additional scaling added to compensate Survival Hunters for the decrease in power of Steady Shot. No longer deals damage to secondary targets.
Ferocious Inspiration: This talent now also increase the damage the Hunter does with Arcane Shot by 3/6/9%.
Improved Tracking(Survival): This talent has been slightly re-designed. Now reads: While tracking Beasts, Demons, Dragonkin, Elementals, Giants, Humanoids and Undead, all ranged damage done to those types is increased by 1/2/3/4/5%.
Kill Shot – Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds, down from 35 sec.
Kindred Spirits: This talent now grants only 3/6/9/12/15% pet damage.
Lock and Load: Now has a 30 second cooldown.
Readiness: No longer resets the cooldown on Bestial Wrath.
Steady Shot: Now gains 10% of attack power as damage instead of 20%.
Serpent’s Swiftness: This talent now grants only 2/4/6/8/10% bonus attack speed to pet. The hunter attack speed bonus is unchanged.
Tranquilizing Shot (Hunter): Cooldown increased to 8 sec, up from 6. Mana cost reduced to 8%, down from 12%.
Unleashed Fury: This talent now grants only 3/6/9/12/15% pet damage.
Viper Sting: Now drains a percentage of maximum mana.
Volley: The damage has been reduced on all ranks by approximately 30% (including attack power scaling).
The coefficient of Rake (Cat) and Scorpid Poison (Scorpid) has been lowered.
Rake: This hunter pet ability has had its damage adjusted to prevent unreasonable scaling with attack power.
Scorpid Poison: No longer stacks. The damage has been adjusted to prevent unreasonable scaling with attack power.
Spirit Strike (hunter pet ability) now has an initial attack (which can crit) and then a single dot. Damage overall is higher.
A recipe for the incredible Fish Feast can now be purchased for Dalaran Cooking Awards.
A new recipe for Worg Tartare is now available for purchase with Dalaran Cooking Awards. This delicacy imbues hit rating and Stamina upon those brave enough to eat it.
Many high level enchantment recipes have had the amount of Infinite Dust and Greater Cosmic Essence requirements significantly reduced, but with Dream Shards being added to them.
The following crafted weapons have had their stats adjusted to properly reflect their intended power: Corroded Saronite Edge, Corroded Saronite Woundbringer, Cudgel of Saronite Justice, Furious Saronite Beatstick, Saronite Spellblade, Saronite Shiv, Savage Cobalt Slicer, Notched Cobalt War Axe, Sturdy Cobalt Quickblade, Cobalt Tenderizer.
Reduced the stats on the Savage Cobalt Slicer to match the weapon’s level.
Glyph of Deterrence: Now -10 seconds instead of -20.
Racial, Berserking: Can now be used properly while under the affects of Hand of Protection.
Racial, Shadowmeld: This ability will now properly restore threat when it is canceled. In addition, it will correctly remove a player from combat if it is active when that player is the last person left alive that the creature hates. This ability is now also unusable while affected by Faerie Fire.
Aspect of the Beast: Will now increase Hunter pet attack power by the correct amount.
Aspect of the Viper: Beast Lore, Scare Beast, and Tame Beast will no longer trigger mana regeneration from this ability.
Call of the Wild: Now only works on the pet and their own master.
Carrion Feeder: No longer causes extremely large amounts of threat when the pet gains happiness.
Chimera Shot: The secondary effects of this shot will now still be triggered even when the target dies from the ability’s damage.
Cower: Now longer shares a cooldown with Growl, but has its own separate cooldown.
Dust Cloud: This pet ability will now be cast by the pet at the target instead of while they are moving toward the target.
Marked for Death: Now works properly for Steady Shot and Glyph of Steady Shot.
Master’s Call: Now makes the pet immune to roots and snares for the duration as well, allowing the pet to break roots on the target even when the pet is rooted.
Nether Shock: Pets will now correctly use this ability on all targets, not just mana users.
Noxious Stings: When this talent triggers Wyvern Sting, the Wyvern Sting will now last the proper duration.
Owl’s Focus: Free abilities will no longer consume this effect.
Prowl: This ability will no longer sometimes turn autocast on by itself.
Sniper Training: Now increases the damage of Aimed Shot by the correct amount.
Spirit Strike: This pet ability’s duration and period have both been reduced to 6 seconds.
Spore Cloud: This ability will now work properly.
Swipe: The tooltip has been adjusted.
Tracking: Entering an arena no longer disables tracking types.
Fixed a bug that allowed Viper’s Sting to target death knights. They are now invalid targets.
Gronnstalker Set: The Aspect of Viper bonus from this set has been changed to work correctly with the redesigned Aspect of the Viper.

Obviously, this isn’t comprehensive – the patch notes never contain everything. From the European forums, Blizzard poster Vaneras notes:

Some Hunter aspects behave as if they still have a global cooldown. The design is that Hunter Aspects should not be on the GCD.

Also, from a few days ago, from Ghostcrawler.

It’s nearly impossible to make an AI-controlled pet smart enough to always do the right things especially in encounters as complicated as ours. We try to work around that by letting the pet survive when it does the wrong thing (staying out during Saph deep breaths for example).

It may be that for specs like BM (and Demonology) that the pet just too high a percent of overall damage. When the pet does well, you do very well, but when the pet suffers, you suffer too much as well, so that your success hinges a lot more on encounter design. If we nerfed the pet damage, we would buff the character’s of course.

Another idea some players have advocated lately is to prevent the pet from getting buffed at all, but let it scale better from buffs on the player. This removes some of the inconsistencies where the pet can’t benefit from buffs properly. We don’t currently have the technology to do that, but it is something we are exploring.

We think the ultimate solution to feedback about BM-51 is just to add more talents to the pet talent trees so that the bonus 4 talent points can improve pet dps by an amount equivalent to the cost of the hunter talent point. The exotic pets themselves would be more of window-dressing, perhaps with more utility from some of their special abilities.

Jan. 16, 2009

That's just the way it goes, that's life

The official notes have been been adjusted to reflect some of what we’ve been talking about over the last week.

Hunter Aspects are now off the Global Cooldown again. They still have a shared 1 second cooldown.
Ferocious Inspiration: This talent now also increase the damage the Hunter does with Arcane Shot by 3/6/9%.
Lock and Load: Now has a 30 second cooldown.
Tranquilizing Shot (Hunter): Cooldown increased to 8 sec, up from 6. Mana cost reduced to 8%, down from 12%.
Rake: This hunter pet ability has had its damage adjusted to prevent unreasonable scaling with attack power.
Scorpid Poison: No longer stacks. The damage has been adjusted to prevent unreasonable scaling with attack power.
Spirit Strike (hunter pet ability) now has an initial attack (which can crit) and then a single dot. Damage overall is higher.
Gronnstalker Set: The Aspect of Viper bonus from this set has been changed to work correctly with the redesigned Aspect of the Viper.

Pet buffing is still being looked at, although this response was to a shaman (damn their ghost wolves!).

Yes, I have tried to post several times that the way pets receive buffs from their masters is inconsistent. We need to take a holistic look at stats, especially those like hit, spell pen and haste. It doesn’t make sense, for example, for a pet to receive a percentage of your spell hit. Where are they ever going to get the remainder of their hit from?

Many classes have pets now, and those classes have different stats to provide to those pets. While locks and hunters (and DKs to a lesser extent) are the most dependent on having a good system in place, the whole paradigm just needs to be reexamined. It is on the list.

And I’m behind a few days with this big response from Ghostcrawler about hunter stuffs.

Players generally do a great job generating numbers with what they have. They don’t always have the most up to date numbers, and we don’t make a herculean effort to get numbers to them. PTRs are our best shot, but even they can lag behind our most current builds.

As a most recent example, Elemental shamans were perplexed by why their numbers were different from ours and there was some amount of shouting that we didn’t know what we were talking about and why couldn’t we just accept the community’s numbers and balance around those? It turned out that the shamans had misunderstood the way a talent worked (almost certainly because of unclear statements on my part) and that when they were able to test on the PTR, their numbers were close to what we predicted. Happy ending.

I don’t know know why the EJ hunter numbers you cited don’t match ours. It would take a great deal of time for us to dig through all the numbers that we are presented with to understand where the disagreements occur. In this case I suspect it is because Explosive Shot does less damage now than it does on the PTR, but I don’t know. Survival is a miniscule percentage of total hunters out there, so we really won’t mind them getting a significant bump, but it isn’t our intent that they are far and away the highest dps hunter spec (BM shouldn’t be either).

We do our tests under a variety of conditions, and fully raid buffed is certainly one of them.

The Ulduar comment I made has been widely misinterpreted, but I made it because so many players were using the argument “We may be okay now, but we won’t scale.” While some players understand “scaling” perfectly well, it also gets thrown around a lot by less-informed players as the generic reason for why something fails (“RNG” occupies that niche on the PvP side of things sometimes). In the hunter case, it may be that they do scale just fine but it is irrelevant because we are rebalancing hunters for 3.1.

GC while im excited that your changing us for 3.1 that is months away. Will you be inclined to hotfix us if you see Live dmg output is extremely low?

Yes. We are even trying to build in more hooks when we do things like this so we can do changes if needed.

Also GC consider that there is a reason why Survival is not played by most hunters. The mechanics for the tree feel too clunky and with the addition of 30 sec CD to LnL that isn’t represented on the UI, the tree has become extremely clunky.

Fair enough. Just buffing dps isn’t always enough to change something from not fun to fun. There are however some hunters even in this thread who want to play Survival and just can’t justify it at the moment.

Cunning pets overall just are a waste of code at this point. Roar of Recovery is useful, but at a 6min cooldown makes it a drop in the bucket.

While 400 dps is low, you are making the assumption that anything that isn’t a raiding pet is a waste of code. Those pets weren’t intended to be for raiding – that’s what Ferocity pets are for. Thanks for all of the numbers though, Neruse.

Sorry we’re a bit panicky … we’re all thinking of Ret Pally’s back in Beta and how you didn’t listen then when folks said they were OP and umm … they were?

Sure, but the Ret pallies said they weren’t and were really upset with the magnitude of the nerfs (which turned out, I think, to be on target or even a little light). I understand what you’re trying to say, but players can be very selective about when we’re supposed to listen to them or not.

On LnL, we’re still messing with the specifics on it. It’s too early to comment until we have something we’re happy with.

Jan. 10, 2009

UNdocumented changes

As you know, the posted Patch Notes do not always correspond with the most recent information (obviously there’s been more than a few reported changes than the notes now demonstrate). Here are some further undocumented changes – which, remember, may or may not actually be live when the patch hits. Everything is still subject to change.

Ferocious Inspiration now also increase the damage of Arcane Shot by 3/6/9%
Lock and Load now has a 30 seconds cooldown.
Explosive shot damage has been slightly decreased and now deal {RAP*0.16+428} – {RAP*0.16+428} Fire damage at level 80. (Down from {RAP*0.18+476} – {RAP*0.18+476})
Improved Stings now reduces the chance your Sting damage over time effects will be dispelled by 10/20/30%.
Spirit Strike (Spirit Beast) damage has been decreased and now Burns the enemy for 49 to 65 Arcane damage and an additional 49 to 65 damage over 6 sec at max rank.
Rake (Cat) damage has been increased, now deals 47-67 bleed damage and an additional 19-25 damage over 9 seconds at max rank.
Scorpid Poison damage has been increased from 45 to 100 Nature damage over 10 sec for the last rank.

And, regarding Spirit Beasts and Prowl:

We fixed this bug. Prowl was designed to work with cats, so it wasn’t set up to look for ranged, non-physical attacks. Spirit Beasts have gotten a lot of love, and we certainly run the risk that they will feel like mandatory pets now. We’ll see.

Jan. 7, 2009

Patch notes, updated

Patch notes have been updated. Does this mean we’re a week closer to seeing it go live?

Tranquilizing Shot has had its cooldown reduced to 6 seconds, down from 15.
Aspects: All aspects now have a 1 second global cooldown.
Aspect of the Beast: Will now increase Hunter pet attack power by the correct amount.
Aspect of the Viper: Beast Lore, Scare Beast, and Tame Beast will no longer trigger mana regeneration from this ability.
Call of the Wild: Now only works on the pet and their own master.
Carrion Feeder: No longer causes extremely large amounts of threat when the pet gains happiness.
Chimera Shot: The secondary effects of this shot will now still be triggered even when the target dies from the ability’s damage.
Cower: Now longer shares a cooldown with Growl, but has its own separate cooldown.
Dust Cloud: This pet ability will now be cast by the pet at the target instead of while they are moving toward the target.
Marked for Death: Now works properly for Steady Shot and Glyph of Steady Shot.
Master’s Call: Now makes the pet immune to roots and snares for the duration as well, allowing the pet to break roots on the target even when the pet is rooted.
Nether Shock: Pets will now correctly use this ability on all targets, not just mana users.
Noxious Stings: When this talent triggers Wyvern Sting, the Wyvern Sting will now last the proper duration.
Owl’s Focus: Free abilities will no longer consume this effect.
Prowl: This ability will no longer sometimes turns autocast on by itself.
Sniper Training: Now increases the damage of Aimed Shot by the correct amount.
Spirit Strike: This pet ability’s duration and period have both been reduced to 6 seconds.
Spore Cloud: This ability will now work properly.
Swipe: The tooltip has been adjusted.
Tracking: Entering an arena no longer disables tracking types.
Fixed a bug that allowed Viper’s Sting to target death knights. They are now invalid targets.

It is important to note that the change to Aspects will NOT be happening. Ghostcrawler followed up today saying:

No, it’s not over. We took them back off the GCD.

So, despite what was said about it previously, Aspects will not be put back onto the GCD. Here’s the follow-up regarding that (and a few things about DPS and the Survival tree).

We talked about it, and Aspects on the GCD is not that big an issue for us. We don’t think it’s a huge balance problem either way. We can understand though why it feels like a nerf to not have the GCD now and to get it back in 3.0.8. So we can keep Aspects off the GCD. No harm done. (They will still have the 1 sec shared cooldown.)

The argument of why you can’t just do too much damage until Ulduar is a silly one. Hunters are doing too much damage. Yes, some other specs are also doing too much damage, but we are reigning those in too.

Remember, our tests are not done with the PTR data. Our builds are more recent than that and have numbers, bug-fixes and data you haven’t seen. We try and give you a heads up to major changes when we can, but we can’t give you an accurate picture of the data with just words.

We understand the concern that Survival’s damage is too high relative to other hunters. That may be the case on the PTR but it isn’t the case for us. We have some different numbers for Explosive Shot than the PTR has. We understand the concerns about T.N.T.

On the Aspects issue, we don’t like taking things off of the GCD. There is a reason we have a GCD and it has everything to do with being a server-client based game. We tried to fix the problem with Aspects being difficult to manage by reducing the need to switch from a defensive aspect (Monkey) and an offensive aspect (Hawk). Enough people (and not just on this thread) said Viper would still be a problem, so we agreed in this case to take the Aspects off the GCD. This is a good example of feedback working.

And more new numbers (updated) regarding Scorpid Poison/Rake/Spirit Strike:

Rank 6 Scorpid Poison – 23 base Nature damage per tick, ticks every 2 sec for 10 sec, 0.014 coefficient, 1 stack max, 10 sec cooldown
Rank 6 Rake – 57 base physical damage, plus 21 base damage per tick, ticks every 3 sec for 9 sec, 0.0175 coefficient
Rank 6 Spirit Strike – 57 base Arcane damage plus 57 additional damage after 6 sec. The initial hit can crit. 0.04 coefficient. 10 sec cooldown.

We realize gorillas are great for tanking and leveling and we’d like to get other Tenacity pets up there, but right now we are focuses on the raid dps pets since they seem to be of the most concern to the community.

And, about Dismantle.

I just wanted to comment on this for any hunters who are new to being disarmed. Weapon chains affect your global disarm duration. They aren’t tied to the weapon per se. An offhand weapon chain works on both weapons and your bow. When disarmed, you lose abilities tied to that item and armor, but not other stats.

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